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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s YOUR Credit Rating?</title>
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	<link>http://thetexasring.com/2009/10/16/whats-your-credit-ratin/</link>
	<description>Common Sense In A Ridiculous World</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2009/10/16/whats-your-credit-ratin/comment-page-1/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=103#comment-51</guid>
		<description>Linda,
Ditto on credit.  I have to ask about inflation though?  I&#039;ve seen prices drop on all sorts of things locally, food, lumber, steel, etc.  Even chicken feed took a nice drop this year.  Yes I know gold and silver is up, but that seems to be more a hedge against Friday surprizes.  
A couple of suggestions to add to the commodities stash:
Lumber and metal stock.  If you have the space it can be handy to stash such building supplies, they may not be easily transportable, but when folks need some 2x4s or angle iron you&#039;ll be the best source.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Linda,<br />
Ditto on credit.  I have to ask about inflation though?  I&#8217;ve seen prices drop on all sorts of things locally, food, lumber, steel, etc.  Even chicken feed took a nice drop this year.  Yes I know gold and silver is up, but that seems to be more a hedge against Friday surprizes.<br />
A couple of suggestions to add to the commodities stash:<br />
Lumber and metal stock.  If you have the space it can be handy to stash such building supplies, they may not be easily transportable, but when folks need some 2&#215;4s or angle iron you&#8217;ll be the best source.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Brady Traynham</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2009/10/16/whats-your-credit-ratin/comment-page-1/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Brady Traynham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=103#comment-43</guid>
		<description>Dear Deaf Drummer:

Sounds like you hear the drummer in your head very well, and he has a good, steady paradiddle.  

I won&#039;t ask where you stash your goodies!

I do have one dismal thought, though:  what if the ATM machine refuses to disgorge cash (or you haven&#039;t arranged for more than the usual $300/day limit), the banks have closed for &quot;holidays,&quot; and stores refuse credit cards or credit card companies refuse to allow purchases of food, gasoline, and guns?  The CC companies were considering precisely that last action about a year ago!  They know that those who are buying food and gas, in particular, tend to be among their biggest credit risks.  We&#039;re still having &quot;Friday surprises,&quot; when a bank is closed down on a Friday and the customers don&#039;t find out until at least Monday. One of my banks got &quot;helpful&quot; when I wrote two checks in one day, and refused to honor the third one.  That was &quot;atypical activity,&quot; and they didn&#039;t care that I had plenty of money to cover it.  Their story was that someone might have stolen my checkbook!  Nah, I just ran out of checks unexpectedly on the account I usually use that day.   Banks do not HAVE to give your money back, and CC companies do not have to honor a request for cash, goods, or services. The bank offers NO guarantee that you will ever be allowed access to a safety deposit box if it closes.

Yes, there is always the chance that one will not make it to a hideout chosen in advance, but the risks increase disastrously for those who have to go buy supplies when the riots have started, the national guard is in the streets, the dollar has crashed, the hurricane has made landfall, or whatever caused the emergency.  My two successful adult children think I&#039;m crazy to live in the country and obsessed with what might happen, bless them.  I did manage to get them to stock a month&#039;s food, and gave them silver and other useful things.  If I&#039;m wrong, well, such are nice to have, but if I&#039;m right I&#039;ve done the best I can to give them a chance.

One of my most stern admonitions is to get out in time.  Don&#039;t stop to pick up the laundry or a birthday cake. In time of emergency everyone is going to be trying to shop, get cash, and fill the gas tank. The moment you learn that something untoward is happening, throw the real essentials into the car that should already have the trunk full and get out of town before the roads are a parking lot.  If what sounds like an emergency blows over, fine (more than fine!), the worst that will happen is that you may feel a little foolish.  We already know what happens to those who linger in New Orleans too long, and I&#039;d rather take a little joshing than visit the Super Dome under those circumstances.  A close friend who took Y2K very seriously is just now using the last of the supplies he stocked, and he lost nothing except a few cans of tomato sauce.  The price of the staples he used continued to go up.  There&#039;s a good strong moral, there.

You pointed out some excellent issues, thank you, and it sounds to me as though your chances of reaching safety are far better than most.  Thanks for writing.  

Linda</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Deaf Drummer:</p>
<p>Sounds like you hear the drummer in your head very well, and he has a good, steady paradiddle.  </p>
<p>I won&#8217;t ask where you stash your goodies!</p>
<p>I do have one dismal thought, though:  what if the ATM machine refuses to disgorge cash (or you haven&#8217;t arranged for more than the usual $300/day limit), the banks have closed for &#8220;holidays,&#8221; and stores refuse credit cards or credit card companies refuse to allow purchases of food, gasoline, and guns?  The CC companies were considering precisely that last action about a year ago!  They know that those who are buying food and gas, in particular, tend to be among their biggest credit risks.  We&#8217;re still having &#8220;Friday surprises,&#8221; when a bank is closed down on a Friday and the customers don&#8217;t find out until at least Monday. One of my banks got &#8220;helpful&#8221; when I wrote two checks in one day, and refused to honor the third one.  That was &#8220;atypical activity,&#8221; and they didn&#8217;t care that I had plenty of money to cover it.  Their story was that someone might have stolen my checkbook!  Nah, I just ran out of checks unexpectedly on the account I usually use that day.   Banks do not HAVE to give your money back, and CC companies do not have to honor a request for cash, goods, or services. The bank offers NO guarantee that you will ever be allowed access to a safety deposit box if it closes.</p>
<p>Yes, there is always the chance that one will not make it to a hideout chosen in advance, but the risks increase disastrously for those who have to go buy supplies when the riots have started, the national guard is in the streets, the dollar has crashed, the hurricane has made landfall, or whatever caused the emergency.  My two successful adult children think I&#8217;m crazy to live in the country and obsessed with what might happen, bless them.  I did manage to get them to stock a month&#8217;s food, and gave them silver and other useful things.  If I&#8217;m wrong, well, such are nice to have, but if I&#8217;m right I&#8217;ve done the best I can to give them a chance.</p>
<p>One of my most stern admonitions is to get out in time.  Don&#8217;t stop to pick up the laundry or a birthday cake. In time of emergency everyone is going to be trying to shop, get cash, and fill the gas tank. The moment you learn that something untoward is happening, throw the real essentials into the car that should already have the trunk full and get out of town before the roads are a parking lot.  If what sounds like an emergency blows over, fine (more than fine!), the worst that will happen is that you may feel a little foolish.  We already know what happens to those who linger in New Orleans too long, and I&#8217;d rather take a little joshing than visit the Super Dome under those circumstances.  A close friend who took Y2K very seriously is just now using the last of the supplies he stocked, and he lost nothing except a few cans of tomato sauce.  The price of the staples he used continued to go up.  There&#8217;s a good strong moral, there.</p>
<p>You pointed out some excellent issues, thank you, and it sounds to me as though your chances of reaching safety are far better than most.  Thanks for writing.  </p>
<p>Linda</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Brady Traynham</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2009/10/16/whats-your-credit-ratin/comment-page-1/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Brady Traynham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=103#comment-42</guid>
		<description>Dear Uncle Cow:  

Beautifully put.  Credit cards are convenient when traveling, or when we discover we just wrote the last check out of the book, or as a way to manage money in specific circumstances SO LONG AS they are not treated as &quot;income.&quot;  I agree wholeheartedly that poor decisions make people poor.  The problem is that it isn&#039;t just our individual bad decisions that hurt us, but the accumulated bad decisions of governments and others.

Chuckle...what kind of cow are you?  We&#039;re so crazy about our tinker toy Black Dexters, which are &quot;small&quot; only for cattle, and Irish.  I got a call last night from the lady who sold us the Gurnsey, and no, she can NOT have Gertrude (Lilybelle to her) back. 

Gertrude is feeding two sleek calves about 7 weeks old and donating two gallons of milk a day to us in return for lush pastures and a bucket of feed twice a day, and she is sweet and gregarious.  She likes to hang out and chew her cud about ten feet away while we&#039;re having our daily time on the terrace.  Hey, there is more to life than Doom &amp; Gloom (although we had better think about that consistently), and life here on the ranch is so joyous.  

Gertrude and the goats mean that no matter how bad things get, so long as we can keep them safe we will never be without milk, butter, and cheese.  In time the two little bull calves will be wrapped in white paper and put in the freezer.  That will more than repay the thousand dollars Gertrude cost, and she should produce a calf a year for at least another decade.  That&#039;s another factor few consider, whether or not an investment will really continue to produce.  Raising cattle to sell is a very precarious proposition, but everything we--all of us--can find to do that secures our food supply is going to pay off very, very well sooner or later.  That&#039;s why my constant advice is to find some way to purchase at least a few acres and an old motor home or trailer (which become your &quot;emergency suitcase&quot; and we hope temporary dwelling) and get at least a few chickens and a dairy goat. If one has relatives in the country, arrange now to store supplies there.  If you have your rolling &quot;house&quot; and your share of foodstuffs you will all be safer.  Perhaps several families could get together and buy a little land, preferably well out of a city.  The world is becoming more dangerous every month, and NOW is when we have to think about the future.

Thanks for writing, and putting the matter very well.

Linda Traynham</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Uncle Cow:  </p>
<p>Beautifully put.  Credit cards are convenient when traveling, or when we discover we just wrote the last check out of the book, or as a way to manage money in specific circumstances SO LONG AS they are not treated as &#8220;income.&#8221;  I agree wholeheartedly that poor decisions make people poor.  The problem is that it isn&#8217;t just our individual bad decisions that hurt us, but the accumulated bad decisions of governments and others.</p>
<p>Chuckle&#8230;what kind of cow are you?  We&#8217;re so crazy about our tinker toy Black Dexters, which are &#8220;small&#8221; only for cattle, and Irish.  I got a call last night from the lady who sold us the Gurnsey, and no, she can NOT have Gertrude (Lilybelle to her) back. </p>
<p>Gertrude is feeding two sleek calves about 7 weeks old and donating two gallons of milk a day to us in return for lush pastures and a bucket of feed twice a day, and she is sweet and gregarious.  She likes to hang out and chew her cud about ten feet away while we&#8217;re having our daily time on the terrace.  Hey, there is more to life than Doom &amp; Gloom (although we had better think about that consistently), and life here on the ranch is so joyous.  </p>
<p>Gertrude and the goats mean that no matter how bad things get, so long as we can keep them safe we will never be without milk, butter, and cheese.  In time the two little bull calves will be wrapped in white paper and put in the freezer.  That will more than repay the thousand dollars Gertrude cost, and she should produce a calf a year for at least another decade.  That&#8217;s another factor few consider, whether or not an investment will really continue to produce.  Raising cattle to sell is a very precarious proposition, but everything we&#8211;all of us&#8211;can find to do that secures our food supply is going to pay off very, very well sooner or later.  That&#8217;s why my constant advice is to find some way to purchase at least a few acres and an old motor home or trailer (which become your &#8220;emergency suitcase&#8221; and we hope temporary dwelling) and get at least a few chickens and a dairy goat. If one has relatives in the country, arrange now to store supplies there.  If you have your rolling &#8220;house&#8221; and your share of foodstuffs you will all be safer.  Perhaps several families could get together and buy a little land, preferably well out of a city.  The world is becoming more dangerous every month, and NOW is when we have to think about the future.</p>
<p>Thanks for writing, and putting the matter very well.</p>
<p>Linda Traynham</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Brady Traynham</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2009/10/16/whats-your-credit-ratin/comment-page-1/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Brady Traynham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=103#comment-41</guid>
		<description>Dear Steve:

Thanks for the great response!  I don&#039;t think we can hit zero, judging from the junk that crosses the bottom of my screen.  It looks as though you get 320 just for breathing.  You are SO right:  people have got to stop &quot;owing their souls to the company store,&quot; as Tennesse Ernie Ford sang about fifty years ago.  The last quarter of a century was predicated on the supposition that real estate would always appreciate in value and it is safe to live on borrowed money.  Some of us never believed it, but we&#039;re suffering from the bad judgement of the many--and from what government does.

My focus is on becoming as self-sufficient as we can.  For nearly three years I&#039;ve had a rule:  if you can&#039;t eat it or protect yourself with it (in various ways), don&#039;t buy it.  No more bedding flowers out lavishly in the Spring for something that hurts this beauty-loving gardener.  No, you don&#039;t need anything that Dillard&#039;s and Macy&#039;s sell.  Yes, you can take your mate out for a special anniversary or birthday dinner, but you don&#039;t even look at fast food places.  We&#039;re excited about getting a real feed mill!  We can grow and process our own corn and sugar cane and not have to worry about the ever-increasing price of sweet feed.  For city folks a $22 bag of EAS protein powder from Sam&#039;s (I have NO commercial interest in any firm or product) will sustain an adult for a month.  Boringly, it is true, but complete nutrition.  That&#039;s steakburgers for two at Jack in the Box money, or a few video rentals.  $22 is a cute T-shirt--or it could be over fifteen pounds of pork loins stashed in your freezer while the price is so low.  Thanks for writing, and I hoped you enjoyed the article once you read it.  Cordially, Linda Traynham</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Steve:</p>
<p>Thanks for the great response!  I don&#8217;t think we can hit zero, judging from the junk that crosses the bottom of my screen.  It looks as though you get 320 just for breathing.  You are SO right:  people have got to stop &#8220;owing their souls to the company store,&#8221; as Tennesse Ernie Ford sang about fifty years ago.  The last quarter of a century was predicated on the supposition that real estate would always appreciate in value and it is safe to live on borrowed money.  Some of us never believed it, but we&#8217;re suffering from the bad judgement of the many&#8211;and from what government does.</p>
<p>My focus is on becoming as self-sufficient as we can.  For nearly three years I&#8217;ve had a rule:  if you can&#8217;t eat it or protect yourself with it (in various ways), don&#8217;t buy it.  No more bedding flowers out lavishly in the Spring for something that hurts this beauty-loving gardener.  No, you don&#8217;t need anything that Dillard&#8217;s and Macy&#8217;s sell.  Yes, you can take your mate out for a special anniversary or birthday dinner, but you don&#8217;t even look at fast food places.  We&#8217;re excited about getting a real feed mill!  We can grow and process our own corn and sugar cane and not have to worry about the ever-increasing price of sweet feed.  For city folks a $22 bag of EAS protein powder from Sam&#8217;s (I have NO commercial interest in any firm or product) will sustain an adult for a month.  Boringly, it is true, but complete nutrition.  That&#8217;s steakburgers for two at Jack in the Box money, or a few video rentals.  $22 is a cute T-shirt&#8211;or it could be over fifteen pounds of pork loins stashed in your freezer while the price is so low.  Thanks for writing, and I hoped you enjoyed the article once you read it.  Cordially, Linda Traynham</p>
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		<title>By: deafdrummer</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2009/10/16/whats-your-credit-ratin/comment-page-1/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>deafdrummer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=103#comment-37</guid>
		<description>Richard, it&#039;s amazing what people do with their money...  I use debit cards every now and then, but I try to get cash out so my purchases are not tracked and I don&#039;t have to write in my registers all the time (though I have to mark the purchases on my spreadsheet). When I get home, the first thing I do is mark the information in my register AND on the computer.  If I went somewhere and lost a quarter at the register, I&#039;d remember to mark it and put that in my spreadsheet, 25 cents docked from the Misc. account.  I track where EVERY penny goes.

There would be one reason to have credit cards, and that is to protect your savings and your resources, so you don&#039;t have to touch them during emergencies.  I pay the stuff off as fast as possible.  I have a certain type of savings (it will cost you several OOO pellets if you want to know - don&#039;t ask), and like the Indians overseas, I NEVER touch it unless I FREAKING HAVE TO!  It is off limits for the rest of my life, as long as possible.  If SHTF and you run out of cash and resources buying up all the stuff you can get, then you can use the cards as &quot;The End of the World As We Know It&quot; &quot;escape cards.&quot;  This way, you can load up and get out of town, knowing there&#039;s a strong possibility you might not survive the drive down to your hideout - then the bill wouldn&#039;t matter.  I know it&#039;s not necessarily the best thing to do, but what are the companies going to do when they get the Tyler Durden disease and die?

Stephanie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, it&#8217;s amazing what people do with their money&#8230;  I use debit cards every now and then, but I try to get cash out so my purchases are not tracked and I don&#8217;t have to write in my registers all the time (though I have to mark the purchases on my spreadsheet). When I get home, the first thing I do is mark the information in my register AND on the computer.  If I went somewhere and lost a quarter at the register, I&#8217;d remember to mark it and put that in my spreadsheet, 25 cents docked from the Misc. account.  I track where EVERY penny goes.</p>
<p>There would be one reason to have credit cards, and that is to protect your savings and your resources, so you don&#8217;t have to touch them during emergencies.  I pay the stuff off as fast as possible.  I have a certain type of savings (it will cost you several OOO pellets if you want to know &#8211; don&#8217;t ask), and like the Indians overseas, I NEVER touch it unless I FREAKING HAVE TO!  It is off limits for the rest of my life, as long as possible.  If SHTF and you run out of cash and resources buying up all the stuff you can get, then you can use the cards as &#8220;The End of the World As We Know It&#8221; &#8220;escape cards.&#8221;  This way, you can load up and get out of town, knowing there&#8217;s a strong possibility you might not survive the drive down to your hideout &#8211; then the bill wouldn&#8217;t matter.  I know it&#8217;s not necessarily the best thing to do, but what are the companies going to do when they get the Tyler Durden disease and die?</p>
<p>Stephanie</p>
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		<title>By: unclecow</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2009/10/16/whats-your-credit-ratin/comment-page-1/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>unclecow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=103#comment-36</guid>
		<description>Credit cards are like many things - great for those who do not need them.  With discipline and caution they can be helpful ways to keep detailed records of what has been spent.  If they are used to &quot;extend&quot; one&#039;s ability to buy more than one can afford, they become very bad ways to access poverty.  Credit cards don&#039;t make people poor, poor decisions do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Credit cards are like many things &#8211; great for those who do not need them.  With discipline and caution they can be helpful ways to keep detailed records of what has been spent.  If they are used to &#8220;extend&#8221; one&#8217;s ability to buy more than one can afford, they become very bad ways to access poverty.  Credit cards don&#8217;t make people poor, poor decisions do.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2009/10/16/whats-your-credit-ratin/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=103#comment-35</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t even read the article yet and came to the comment section.  I am striving valantly to gain a ZERO CREDIT SCORE. I have absolutly no use for borrowed money.  I did it for to many years, it is a genuine waste of energy, work, and financial stability to owe any one for any thing, and I will no longer be a slave to any lender. NO MORE PERIOD.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t even read the article yet and came to the comment section.  I am striving valantly to gain a ZERO CREDIT SCORE. I have absolutly no use for borrowed money.  I did it for to many years, it is a genuine waste of energy, work, and financial stability to owe any one for any thing, and I will no longer be a slave to any lender. NO MORE PERIOD.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Marmo</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2009/10/16/whats-your-credit-ratin/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Marmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=103#comment-34</guid>
		<description>Emily,

Absolutely on both Linda&#039;s comments and mine.  You&#039;d be amazed at the number of people who wind up $70 or $80 short in their checking account every month and can&#039;t figure out where the money went. It went to all those ATM charges and overlooked debit card expenditures that they forgot to record.

If you&#039;re going to use a debit and/or ATM card, you HAVE to train yourself to treat it just like a check and record the amount on the spot.

Even worse are automatic drafts on your checking account that some companies literally force you into accepting.  Unless you keep enough money in the account to cover the automatic drafts under all circumstances, no matter how forgetful you are, the automatic draft will be paid while you get hit by the bank for an overdraft charge in addition to the amount of the draft.

Ain&#039;t daily finances fun?

Richard</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emily,</p>
<p>Absolutely on both Linda&#8217;s comments and mine.  You&#8217;d be amazed at the number of people who wind up $70 or $80 short in their checking account every month and can&#8217;t figure out where the money went. It went to all those ATM charges and overlooked debit card expenditures that they forgot to record.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re going to use a debit and/or ATM card, you HAVE to train yourself to treat it just like a check and record the amount on the spot.</p>
<p>Even worse are automatic drafts on your checking account that some companies literally force you into accepting.  Unless you keep enough money in the account to cover the automatic drafts under all circumstances, no matter how forgetful you are, the automatic draft will be paid while you get hit by the bank for an overdraft charge in addition to the amount of the draft.</p>
<p>Ain&#8217;t daily finances fun?</p>
<p>Richard</p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2009/10/16/whats-your-credit-ratin/comment-page-1/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=103#comment-33</guid>
		<description>Are you serious?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you serious?</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Brady Traynham</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2009/10/16/whats-your-credit-ratin/comment-page-1/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Brady Traynham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=103#comment-32</guid>
		<description>A debit card is fine, since it takes money directly out of your bank account and is not a charge on future funds or earnings, as opposed to a credit card.  However, debit and ATM cards carry a significant danger that predates &quot;identity theft&quot; by a very long time:  sheer old carelessness.  Dreadful things happen when we do not fill out our check registers AND update our balances EVERY time, whether we wrote a check, &quot;pulsed,&quot; or &quot;swiped&quot; the debit card through the machine.  The money is gone whether we remember it or not.  LBT</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A debit card is fine, since it takes money directly out of your bank account and is not a charge on future funds or earnings, as opposed to a credit card.  However, debit and ATM cards carry a significant danger that predates &#8220;identity theft&#8221; by a very long time:  sheer old carelessness.  Dreadful things happen when we do not fill out our check registers AND update our balances EVERY time, whether we wrote a check, &#8220;pulsed,&#8221; or &#8220;swiped&#8221; the debit card through the machine.  The money is gone whether we remember it or not.  LBT</p>
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