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	<title>Comments on: Charitable Giving&#8211;For the Poor</title>
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	<link>http://thetexasring.com/2010/05/13/charitable-giving-for-the-poor/</link>
	<description>Common Sense In A Ridiculous World</description>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2010/05/13/charitable-giving-for-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-765</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 23:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=267#comment-765</guid>
		<description>Desertrat,

youse might also look at:

http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/please-dont-feed-the-animals/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Desertrat,</p>
<p>youse might also look at:</p>
<p><a href="http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/please-dont-feed-the-animals/" rel="nofollow">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/please-dont-feed-the-animals/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Desertrat</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2010/05/13/charitable-giving-for-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-594</link>
		<dc:creator>Desertrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 16:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=267#comment-594</guid>
		<description>This may be of interest when talking about charity, along with another essay at Wiskey &amp; Gunpowder:

http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/charity-and-the-real-root-of-poverty/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may be of interest when talking about charity, along with another essay at Wiskey &amp; Gunpowder:</p>
<p><a href="http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/charity-and-the-real-root-of-poverty/" rel="nofollow">http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/charity-and-the-real-root-of-poverty/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Desertrat</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2010/05/13/charitable-giving-for-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-589</link>
		<dc:creator>Desertrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 00:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=267#comment-589</guid>
		<description>Around 1976 I was at lunch with some political bigwigs.  There was some chit-chat about an upcoming seminar, &quot;What can municipal government do to keep prime agricultural land from becoming residential development?&quot;

I levitated, regained control, and pointed out that municipal governments were the direct cause of the change.  As said above, 

&quot;The assessor would point out the housing subdivision going up a mile or two away and say, “Nope, you’re gonna subdivide. Then he would raise the tax rate.

Given the new tax, the farmer could not afford to farm, so he subdivided the land.&quot;

Being politicians, they were slow to understand, but I finally got it through to them.  Saved the cost of the seminar, anyway, as it was never held.  Didn&#039;t change municipal tax appraisals, though.

I went through that deal.  I know first hand.  My grandfather worked two fulltime jobs, 1937-1939 and paid cash for 150 acres outside Austin.  $24 per acre.  By the early 1970s, the school taxes were $35 per acre per year.  The appraised value was around $6,000/acre.  Well, you can make a helluva lot more money raising condos than cows.  Messes up the deer hunting, though...

&#039;Rat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Around 1976 I was at lunch with some political bigwigs.  There was some chit-chat about an upcoming seminar, &#8220;What can municipal government do to keep prime agricultural land from becoming residential development?&#8221;</p>
<p>I levitated, regained control, and pointed out that municipal governments were the direct cause of the change.  As said above, </p>
<p>&#8220;The assessor would point out the housing subdivision going up a mile or two away and say, “Nope, you’re gonna subdivide. Then he would raise the tax rate.</p>
<p>Given the new tax, the farmer could not afford to farm, so he subdivided the land.&#8221;</p>
<p>Being politicians, they were slow to understand, but I finally got it through to them.  Saved the cost of the seminar, anyway, as it was never held.  Didn&#8217;t change municipal tax appraisals, though.</p>
<p>I went through that deal.  I know first hand.  My grandfather worked two fulltime jobs, 1937-1939 and paid cash for 150 acres outside Austin.  $24 per acre.  By the early 1970s, the school taxes were $35 per acre per year.  The appraised value was around $6,000/acre.  Well, you can make a helluva lot more money raising condos than cows.  Messes up the deer hunting, though&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8216;Rat</p>
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		<title>By: Oldmanriver</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2010/05/13/charitable-giving-for-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-588</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldmanriver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 19:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=267#comment-588</guid>
		<description>DesertRat,

yes you are right pretty much a manufactured farm crisis in the 80s.  Earl Butz was a loudmouth idiot.  We were going to feed the world. I remember everyone being all excited buying huge equipment, land etc etc.  Then Jimmy Carter put an embargo on grain sales to the soviets.  Which caused pretty much every country to take a long hard look at using the USA as their only source of food.  The Japanese started investing in South American Ag big time after that.  Realizing that we could not be trusted.  All the banks were lending out based on net worth, no one cared about cash flow.  Which when you get down to it was the cause of the current economic crisis.  Lending people money for homes based on the fact that those homes were always going up in value.  After the farm crisis ag banks were strictly cash flow lenders.  Which is probably a big reason why the current crisis has not had much effect on the ag sector.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DesertRat,</p>
<p>yes you are right pretty much a manufactured farm crisis in the 80s.  Earl Butz was a loudmouth idiot.  We were going to feed the world. I remember everyone being all excited buying huge equipment, land etc etc.  Then Jimmy Carter put an embargo on grain sales to the soviets.  Which caused pretty much every country to take a long hard look at using the USA as their only source of food.  The Japanese started investing in South American Ag big time after that.  Realizing that we could not be trusted.  All the banks were lending out based on net worth, no one cared about cash flow.  Which when you get down to it was the cause of the current economic crisis.  Lending people money for homes based on the fact that those homes were always going up in value.  After the farm crisis ag banks were strictly cash flow lenders.  Which is probably a big reason why the current crisis has not had much effect on the ag sector.</p>
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		<title>By: Oldmanriver</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2010/05/13/charitable-giving-for-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-587</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldmanriver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 18:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=267#comment-587</guid>
		<description>Tony,

yes thats a bit different situation than what we have in Illinois.  Farmers prayed that a road or subdivision got their land.  Typically the developers would 1031 and the farmer would end up with 3 times the land than he started out with.  In fact its a problem as development is driving the price of farm ground up all over Illinois.  The best thing that can happen to a farmer is if a developer wants his land.  That farmer can now actually afford to farm.  Now of course this is corn country and we are not growing the same type of things they grow in california, so its a different situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony,</p>
<p>yes thats a bit different situation than what we have in Illinois.  Farmers prayed that a road or subdivision got their land.  Typically the developers would 1031 and the farmer would end up with 3 times the land than he started out with.  In fact its a problem as development is driving the price of farm ground up all over Illinois.  The best thing that can happen to a farmer is if a developer wants his land.  That farmer can now actually afford to farm.  Now of course this is corn country and we are not growing the same type of things they grow in california, so its a different situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2010/05/13/charitable-giving-for-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-583</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 May 2010 00:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=267#comment-583</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m slightly familiar with the silicon gulch area--Fremont in particular (across the bay). 

Fremont used to be composed of many farms.  The county assessor would come by and say, &quot;This area is zoned for housing development.  We are going to up your tax rate accordingly.&quot;  The farmer would protest and say, &quot;My grandfather farmed this land, my father farmed this land, I am farming this land, and it is expected my son will farm this land.  This is farmland.&quot;  

The assessor would point out the housing subdivision going up a mile or two away and say, &quot;Nope, you&#039;re gonna subdivide.  Then he would raise the tax rate.

Given the new tax, the farmer could not afford to farm, so he subdivided the land.  The tax assessor would then say, &quot;See, I knew you were gonna subdivide.&quot; and proceed to the next farm.

Fremont is now all housing.

always,
tony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m slightly familiar with the silicon gulch area&#8211;Fremont in particular (across the bay). </p>
<p>Fremont used to be composed of many farms.  The county assessor would come by and say, &#8220;This area is zoned for housing development.  We are going to up your tax rate accordingly.&#8221;  The farmer would protest and say, &#8220;My grandfather farmed this land, my father farmed this land, I am farming this land, and it is expected my son will farm this land.  This is farmland.&#8221;  </p>
<p>The assessor would point out the housing subdivision going up a mile or two away and say, &#8220;Nope, you&#8217;re gonna subdivide.  Then he would raise the tax rate.</p>
<p>Given the new tax, the farmer could not afford to farm, so he subdivided the land.  The tax assessor would then say, &#8220;See, I knew you were gonna subdivide.&#8221; and proceed to the next farm.</p>
<p>Fremont is now all housing.</p>
<p>always,<br />
tony</p>
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		<title>By: Desertrat</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2010/05/13/charitable-giving-for-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-582</link>
		<dc:creator>Desertrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 May 2010 23:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=267#comment-582</guid>
		<description>Farmers and ranchers make up one of the few of productive groups who buy retail and sell wholesale.  And farm/ranch produce never has kept up with inflation...

Still, &quot;Get big!&quot; was government advice, supported by the banksters.  Fast forward and government advice encouraged buying over-priced houses via banksters making weird-format government-induced loans.  Trouble is, there ain&#039;t nobody doing HomeAid.

Suffice that my trust in government is between Slim and None, and Slim left town.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Farmers and ranchers make up one of the few of productive groups who buy retail and sell wholesale.  And farm/ranch produce never has kept up with inflation&#8230;</p>
<p>Still, &#8220;Get big!&#8221; was government advice, supported by the banksters.  Fast forward and government advice encouraged buying over-priced houses via banksters making weird-format government-induced loans.  Trouble is, there ain&#8217;t nobody doing HomeAid.</p>
<p>Suffice that my trust in government is between Slim and None, and Slim left town.</p>
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		<title>By: Oldmanriver</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2010/05/13/charitable-giving-for-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-580</link>
		<dc:creator>Oldmanriver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 May 2010 01:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=267#comment-580</guid>
		<description>Farm payments are capped at $250k per operator.  yes anyone with a bit of sense can just put ground in different family members names.  
Although either in the current bill or the upcoming one they are looking at doing away with that.  Wont do any good.  The reason that small farms have problems is because they are inefficient and cannot earn enough money to invest in their operation and to raise a family.  When butz said get big or get out he was just describing the effects of inflation on farm operations.  Each year the purchasing power of what you make goes down.  In order to compensate a farm has to grow every year.  This is just a fact of being in the business of producing any commodity.  Its why people could raise a family off of 40 acres 60 years ago but now it takes 1000-1200 (corn)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Farm payments are capped at $250k per operator.  yes anyone with a bit of sense can just put ground in different family members names.<br />
Although either in the current bill or the upcoming one they are looking at doing away with that.  Wont do any good.  The reason that small farms have problems is because they are inefficient and cannot earn enough money to invest in their operation and to raise a family.  When butz said get big or get out he was just describing the effects of inflation on farm operations.  Each year the purchasing power of what you make goes down.  In order to compensate a farm has to grow every year.  This is just a fact of being in the business of producing any commodity.  Its why people could raise a family off of 40 acres 60 years ago but now it takes 1000-1200 (corn)</p>
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		<title>By: Desertrat</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2010/05/13/charitable-giving-for-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-570</link>
		<dc:creator>Desertrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 May 2010 21:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=267#comment-570</guid>
		<description>One of the better places to examine federal farm subsidy and size of acreage is in California&#039;s irrigation areas of the Central Valley, where the water is supplied by the Bureau of Reclamation.  IIRC, it&#039;s 160 acres per farmer.  So, the farmer, his wife, each kid:  They each have title to 160 acres.  El cheapo BuRec water from the Delta-Mendota Canal.  I don&#039;t know the details for irrigation water from the California Acqueduct; that&#039;s a state deal.  (I used to design and estimate the costs on such projects, but wasn&#039;t involved in the sales end of the deal.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the better places to examine federal farm subsidy and size of acreage is in California&#8217;s irrigation areas of the Central Valley, where the water is supplied by the Bureau of Reclamation.  IIRC, it&#8217;s 160 acres per farmer.  So, the farmer, his wife, each kid:  They each have title to 160 acres.  El cheapo BuRec water from the Delta-Mendota Canal.  I don&#8217;t know the details for irrigation water from the California Acqueduct; that&#8217;s a state deal.  (I used to design and estimate the costs on such projects, but wasn&#8217;t involved in the sales end of the deal.)</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://thetexasring.com/2010/05/13/charitable-giving-for-the-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-569</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 May 2010 19:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetexasring.com/?p=267#comment-569</guid>
		<description>Desertrat

1.  re large farms

I find it &quot;interesting&quot; that (much like the tobacco farmers that they subsidize, then tax the product because it is harmful) the government wants &quot;big farms&quot; in order for efficiency, but continues to subsidize &quot;small family farms&quot;.  I forget what the acreage is to be considered &quot;small&quot; in order to qualify for subsidies but the American farmer, being quite practical, simply formed several corporations, broke up his holdings and &quot;leased them&quot; to the various corporations, then partook of the subsidies.  (P&#039;haps I&#039;ll send Mike a copy of a paper I wrote on subsidies.)

2.  Re: Faith in gubbermint

In terms of &quot;infinite faith&quot; in the gubbermint, I&#039;m reminded of a phrase from my youth.  (YES, I was young once.)

                  STAY LOOSE

always,
tony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Desertrat</p>
<p>1.  re large farms</p>
<p>I find it &#8220;interesting&#8221; that (much like the tobacco farmers that they subsidize, then tax the product because it is harmful) the government wants &#8220;big farms&#8221; in order for efficiency, but continues to subsidize &#8220;small family farms&#8221;.  I forget what the acreage is to be considered &#8220;small&#8221; in order to qualify for subsidies but the American farmer, being quite practical, simply formed several corporations, broke up his holdings and &#8220;leased them&#8221; to the various corporations, then partook of the subsidies.  (P&#8217;haps I&#8217;ll send Mike a copy of a paper I wrote on subsidies.)</p>
<p>2.  Re: Faith in gubbermint</p>
<p>In terms of &#8220;infinite faith&#8221; in the gubbermint, I&#8217;m reminded of a phrase from my youth.  (YES, I was young once.)</p>
<p>                  STAY LOOSE</p>
<p>always,<br />
tony</p>
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